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New dartfrog vivarium

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#41
Elemental_Dragon

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Ooooo can we? Or can we get purty fishies?

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#42
Delgado

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haha yay! Dooo it! :D So much fun to set up. I haven't even got frogs yet and I still enjoy watching it develop. I was considering building from scratch following that link, it's just this tank appeared and I took the lazier option. Realised I haven't posted an updated image in a while so here is how it's looking now:

Posted Image
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#43
GarethS

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Pretty much in the planning stages in my head at the moment. Dependent on work related stuff, a re-arrange of the living room (including getting a panel heater moved) and a few other bits.

Too much of a perfectionist I guess, if I want something like this a bit like a personal car it has to be done what I see as "right" ... Looking at R Fantasticus or R Variabilis but not sure on availability or the like.

I guess the good thing if I go down the route of building my own viv is I can go for a bit of an odd size.

#44
Delgado

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Pretty much in the planning stages in my head at the moment. Dependent on work related stuff, a re-arrange of the living room (including getting a panel heater moved) and a few other bits.

Too much of a perfectionist I guess, if I want something like this a bit like a personal car it has to be done what I see as "right" ... Looking at R Fantasticus or R Variabilis but not sure on availability or the like.

I guess the good thing if I go down the route of building my own viv is I can go for a bit of an odd size.


Mmm I know what you mean. You can go on some forums and people are throwing vivs together with off the shelf bits in an afternoon. You wonder if they'll really be happy with them in the long term and why they're depriving themselves of all the enjoyment planning it and getting it just right.

Availability of Ranitomeya is pretty patchy, which is partly why my viv is still a frog free zone. Dartfrog are getting some new stock in next week but other than that there's a very limited number of sources and it's mostly private breeders. Tinctorius morphs are a lot easier to get hold of. I've been waiting so long for some thumbs to turn up I'm starting to wonder whether it might be easier to jump straight to a pair of pumilio - which is what most hobbiests eventually end up specialising in. I guess they're the discus of the dartfrog world in a way.
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#45
GarethS

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While I've been doing thinking and planning on this an article caught my attention on the BBC News site which hopefully you haven't seen before Delgardo:

Feeling brew-dy - frogs raised in a cup of tea

Any thoughts? Or seen something similar before?

#46
Delgado

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While I've been doing thinking and planning on this an article caught my attention on the BBC News site which hopefully you haven't seen before Delgardo:

Feeling brew-dy - frogs raised in a cup of tea

Any thoughts? Or seen something similar before?


Ah that's quite an interesting and simple way of doing it :D It's the tannins we're interested in as far as anti-bacterial properties and more often it's done with 'commercial' solutions like 'tadpole tea' or leaving a magnolia leaf in the water.

This is still an area though where I don't think the frog hobby isn't quite caught up with fish keeping. Rarely are the various cups and other containers tads are raised in actively filtered and I can't see how a build up of waste products in the water could do them any good - despite, I asume, the tadpoles having evolved to be reasonably tolerant of poor water quality caused by living in such a small volume. While the use of tannins keeps bacterial populations low, it isn't doing much for the quality of the water itself. Spindly leg syndrome or SLS is quite a common problem with newly emerged froglets (front legs are wasted and frog is unable to support its body weight) and these usually have to be euthanised. I think the hobby has identified at least one critical factor for reducing this problem is proper nutrition for the parents, specifically with the right vitamins and minerals and if possible additional UV lighting. I'd be surprised if the water quality a tad develops in doesn't have some impact too - it certainly does with fish fry. In a bromeliad pool I'd guess there'd be some natural filtration going on, with the plant absorbing some waste products and others being processed by long-established populations of friendly nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria. As practical for purpose as they are, I can't see plastic cups emulating this very well without some extra filtration. Daily water changes might be done but levels of pollutants are still going to build up in cycles. This is all supposition really though, I'm a keen ameteur but certainly no expert.
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#47
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I've been reading some of the stuff about UV(B?) on Dedroboard, though it seems the jury is still out on that one in terms of amounts that the amphibs should be exposed to.

Though that said you look through one of the larger builds in the construction section of Dendroboard says he has seen his frogs basking in certain areas which seems to support the fact that they know what they need. Part of me says that for climbing frogs (as opposed to mostly ground based ones) that you'd want a lower level of UV lighting to encourage them to climb, could be wrong though.

Also agree that in real life you would have filtering within the brom pool, though guess it would be going a bit far for some hobbiests to have a seperate viv with just broms to provide a semi-natural environment for tadpoles. Obviously the guys who are able to dedicate a whole room (and not ruin their marriage/w.h.y.) are obviously going to be able to do this I guess.

Dendroboard is a bad influence with some of the insane set-ups in the construction section. I mean a whole section of your garage converted to a walk in viv ... come on now!

Though I do like the one done by the guy who converted his old reef tank who has got mixed species in there. I know he's had some failures but by all accounts some people have said certain mixes would be fine and some didn't.

Certainly for me I'm still in the information gathering/research stage of this. Some of the things I have seen for larger vivs I'm wondering if they can be scaled down for a smaller viv, though having had tropical fish my idea of "small" was the 4ft tank I had when I was younger with my first tank a "hand me down" 6ft from a family friend who was upgrading his system.

#48
Delgado

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I've been reading some of the stuff about UV(B?) on Dedroboard, though it seems the jury is still out on that one in terms of amounts that the amphibs should be exposed to.

Though that said you look through one of the larger builds in the construction section of Dendroboard says he has seen his frogs basking in certain areas which seems to support the fact that they know what they need. Part of me says that for climbing frogs (as opposed to mostly ground based ones) that you'd want a lower level of UV lighting to encourage them to climb, could be wrong though.


For leaf litter dwelling frogs as in the wild the forest canopy is so thick, not much light filters down to the floor. I suspect they would benefit from a small amount and would only require that small amount. The climbers it may be different for as you say. I probably will put a small UV source in this viv if I can work out a non-intrusive way of doing it. It's a pain it has to go in inside the viv to avoid the glass filtering it out. Also they definitely need space to escape from it when they've had enough so it would need to be quite localised.

Also agree that in real life you would have filtering within the brom pool, though guess it would be going a bit far for some hobbiests to have a seperate viv with just broms to provide a semi-natural environment for tadpoles. Obviously the guys who are able to dedicate a whole room (and not ruin their marriage/w.h.y.) are obviously going to be able to do this I guess.

Dendroboard is a bad influence with some of the insane set-ups in the construction section. I mean a whole section of your garage converted to a walk in viv ... come on now!


One guy's tadpole setup I saw was quite impressive. he had loads of short lengths of wide clear piping suspended end up in a shallow tank. The bottom of each was slightly above the base of the tank and sealed with a fine mesh. The main body of water was filtered meaning each tadpole was separated into a small space but still benefited from a large volume of filtered water.

I have seen at least one serious Dendroboard member blame his addiction to frogs for his marriage breakup. Perhaps he is an extreme example but it is a hobby that can get totally out of control :D

Though I do like the one done by the guy who converted his old reef tank who has got mixed species in there. I know he's had some failures but by all accounts some people have said certain mixes would be fine and some didn't.

Certainly for me I'm still in the information gathering/research stage of this. Some of the things I have seen for larger vivs I'm wondering if they can be scaled down for a smaller viv, though having had tropical fish my idea of "small" was the 4ft tank I had when I was younger with my first tank a "hand me down" 6ft from a family friend who was upgrading his system.


As with most things in tanks, definitely the bigger the better but the larger dart vivs seem to be in the minority. They make a big splash on forums but I think the average keeper is setting vivs of 20-30 gallons in exo-terras (and often lots of them). I haven't bought a house yet so have had to keep the scale of mine quite small at 20 gallons but one day there's going to be one taking up a whole wall <dance1>
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#49
GarethS

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Pretty much the large fish tank I was given covered a wall in my bedroom when I was younger, the previous owner's own replacement freshwater tropical tank covered the rear wall of his living room, I don't like to think even now how much one sheet of glass cost for that!

I found another on Dendroboard where someone in Holland is doing a purpose built viv. It made me do a double take as he has the same first name as a Flemish Belgian friend of mine and has a beard just like my friend. Then noticed a few pictures later he had a young family ... definitely not the person I was thinking of ... ah well!

Obviously my main concerns are:
a) not keeping froggies before I don't want to go large initially and then find I don't enjoy the hobby
B) copying others lol

#50
Delgado

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Is that viv you're talking about the Hillstream project? That is nuts!
http://www.dendroboa...onstr-jrnl.html

I would recommend you go for between a 30-40 gallon to start with, not overly large but gives you enough comfortable room for pretty much any species, including pairs of the more demanding ones like pumilio.
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#51
GarethS

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That's the one, his previous one also looks interesting.

hill stream paludarium

The one I was thinking of which used to be a reef tank is this one which was this before. Though I can't see my flat supporting a 14 ton floor loading somehow!

#52
Delgado

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I do wonder where these people get their resources from. The old reef tank one in particular must have been blindingly expensive to set up (although perhaps not as pricey as when it was a reef). They are obviously extermely impressive though!

Haven't paid for them yet but have now ordered a trio of Ranitomeya imitator nominat :)
Not the gaudiest but with a subtle charm. And not too soon either, my leaflitter insect population is really starting to get out of control.
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#53
GarethS

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I've seen quite a few people on different forums say that their imis are quite bold so should be good. Look forward to seeing pics for some more inspiration.

In Portsmouth at the moment so if they arrive tomorrow and you're not happy I'll pick everything up on Sunday from you on my way back home ;)

#54
Mattmc91

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What you doing down here Gareth? Did I say you were allowed O_O

#55
GarethS

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That's ok Matt ... I'll pass your comments on to the groom ... I'm sure he'll be round with his response, though most of his responses tend to involve fire ;)

#56
Delgado

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Rubbish handheld pictures, I just like the diversity of inverts on just one leaf! The red areas are flakes of fish-food, mostly responsible for the amount of insects.

Posted Image

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Posted Image
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#57
Mattmc91

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let the froggies at them :o

#58
fido

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Lol amazing. Like its own little world in a glass case :)

#59
Delgado

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A little bit closer

Posted Image

Frogs arrive tomorrow, pretty excited :)
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#60
Mattmc91

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make sure to get some lovely piccies of them :D




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